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His apartment is being whitewashed. So N.Vittal, former Chief Vigilance Commissioner, takes us to his daughter's house on the first floor of the same building. “I am lucky. I have my daughter living in the same building,” he says. Inside, he settles on a sofa strewn with his granddaughter's dolls and opens up on the rot in the system. Excerpts from an interview with N. Asokan:
What is your observation on the 2G scam?
This has been the biggest scam in independent India. We have seen many scams since 1947. But after liberalisation in 1991, different types of scams related to the shaping of government policies have come to light. What we are witnessing now is the corporate sector shaping policies for their convenience. The 2G scam shows what is wrong with governance in the country and how corruption has seeped into every aspect of public life. Not only politics, but also the bureaucracy, corporate sector, and media are affected. Even the the judiciary and defence have been affected. As a 73-year-old man, I had multiple problems in my body a few years back. Many experts coordinated for my recovery. Governance in India suffers from multiple organ failure.
What is the way out?
Four medical experts had to work in tandem to save my life. Similarly, we need four doctors who can pull India out of this mess – the judiciary, the Election Commission of India, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India and CVC.
But aren't these agencies, too, mired in controversy?
I agree. If a doctor has to cure someone, he himself should not be sick. The 2G scam is the culmination of the rot that started in 1947. The above four agencies should cure themselves before setting out to rectify the system. I have a simple suggestion. These institutions must be manned by the right people. Take the CVC case. Apply the 2T formula. One T is transparency. It means everybody knows how things are done and there is no room for mischief. The other is TINA – there is no alternative. Political leaders will do a right thing for the public and the country only when there is no alternative. Otherwise politics is driven by greed and selfishness. In the CVC case, there should have been transparency in appointment and there should have been no alternative but to select the right man. I am waiting for the SC to decide in the current CVC case. I visualise that future PMs and Home Ministers will have no alternative but to follow a transparent way of selection. The government of India is going through a process of cleansing. Because the way the SC has intervened, it is likely to lay down a standard system that I hope will lead to some good.
Is there greater tolerance for corruption in society now?
I don't think so. I meet many people and address so many meetings. There is huge opposition against corruption. But people are helpless. They have no way out.
Telecom minister Kapil Sibal has rejected the CAG report. What are your comments?
Kapil Sibal is an extremely intelligent lawyer. A lawyer always argues for the case he has taken. Because of political complications, as a clever lawyer he is making the best of a bad case.
Who is more responsible for corruption – businessmen, bureaucrats or politicians?
Narasimha Rao said bureaucrats are like trained horses. They act the way you want them to. Corporates want to have their way. Politicians want to grab power. I may blame politicians and businessmen but I can't absolve bureaucrats. Politicians can be thrown out every five years. Babus continue for 30 years.
You defended the CVC in an interview the other day.
No, I did not. My stand was prompted by the fact that politicians try to control every post. People are calling for Thomas' resignation. If he resigns, the case is over and the SC need not give a decision. A SC ruling will augur well for the future. That's why I said Thomas should stay.
When Sukh Ram was communications minister, you were the telecom secretary. Did you face any pressure?
There was no pressure at all. The minister is supreme. If I suggest something and the minister overrules me, I will resubmit it for reconsideration. If it is not accepted yet again, I will carry out the order. I appeared as a witness in the CBI court in the Sukh Ram case. He was sentenced for three years. When I became CVC, I called on the Vice President Mr Krishna Kant. He asked me how a man like me had risen to this position in our system? I told him I have been following a principle called Vittal amendment to the Franklin Principle. Benjamin Franklin said two things are unavoidable in life: death and taxes. But in Vittal's amendment to this, four things are unavoidable. They are death, taxes, transfer and retirement (laughs).
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His apartment is being whitewashed. So N.Vittal, former Chief Vigilance Commissioner, takes us to his daughter's house on the first floor of the same building. “I am lucky. I have my daughter living in the same building,” he says. Inside, he settles on a sofa strewn with his granddaughter's dolls and opens up on the rot in the system. Excerpts from an interview with N. Asokan:
What is your observation on the 2G scam?
This has been the biggest scam in independent India. We have seen many scams since 1947. But after liberalisation in 1991, different types of scams related to the shaping of government policies have come to light. What we are witnessing now is the corporate sector shaping policies for their convenience. The 2G scam shows what is wrong with governance in the country and how corruption has seeped into every aspect of public life. Not only politics, but also the bureaucracy, corporate sector, and media are affected. Even the the judiciary and defence have been affected. As a 73-year-old man, I had multiple problems in my body a few years back. Many experts coordinated for my recovery. Governance in India suffers from multiple organ failure.
What is the way out?
Four medical experts had to work in tandem to save my life. Similarly, we need four doctors who can pull India out of this mess – the judiciary, the Election Commission of India, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India and CVC.
But aren't these agencies, too, mired in controversy?
I agree. If a doctor has to cure someone, he himself should not be sick. The 2G scam is the culmination of the rot that started in 1947. The above four agencies should cure themselves before setting out to rectify the system. I have a simple suggestion. These institutions must be manned by the right people. Take the CVC case. Apply the 2T formula. One T is transparency. It means everybody knows how things are done and there is no room for mischief. The other is TINA – there is no alternative. Political leaders will do a right thing for the public and the country only when there is no alternative. Otherwise politics is driven by greed and selfishness. In the CVC case, there should have been transparency in appointment and there should have been no alternative but to select the right man. I am waiting for the SC to decide in the current CVC case. I visualise that future PMs and Home Ministers will have no alternative but to follow a transparent way of selection. The government of India is going through a process of cleansing. Because the way the SC has intervened, it is likely to lay down a standard system that I hope will lead to some good.
Is there greater tolerance for corruption in society now?
I don't think so. I meet many people and address so many meetings. There is huge opposition against corruption. But people are helpless. They have no way out.
Telecom minister Kapil Sibal has rejected the CAG report. What are your comments?
Kapil Sibal is an extremely intelligent lawyer. A lawyer always argues for the case he has taken. Because of political complications, as a clever lawyer he is making the best of a bad case.
Who is more responsible for corruption – businessmen, bureaucrats or politicians?
Narasimha Rao said bureaucrats are like trained horses. They act the way you want them to. Corporates want to have their way. Politicians want to grab power. I may blame politicians and businessmen but I can't absolve bureaucrats. Politicians can be thrown out every five years. Babus continue for 30 years.
You defended the CVC in an interview the other day.
No, I did not. My stand was prompted by the fact that politicians try to control every post. People are calling for Thomas' resignation. If he resigns, the case is over and the SC need not give a decision. A SC ruling will augur well for the future. That's why I said Thomas should stay.
When Sukh Ram was communications minister, you were the telecom secretary. Did you face any pressure?
There was no pressure at all. The minister is supreme. If I suggest something and the minister overrules me, I will resubmit it for reconsideration. If it is not accepted yet again, I will carry out the order. I appeared as a witness in the CBI court in the Sukh Ram case. He was sentenced for three years. When I became CVC, I called on the Vice President Mr Krishna Kant. He asked me how a man like me had risen to this position in our system? I told him I have been following a principle called Vittal amendment to the Franklin Principle. Benjamin Franklin said two things are unavoidable in life: death and taxes. But in Vittal's amendment to this, four things are unavoidable. They are death, taxes, transfer and retirement (laughs).
For More IIPM Info, Visit below mentioned IIPM articles.
Arindam Chaudhuri is Delhi franchise holder for i1 Super Series
IIPM ranks No 1 in International Exposure in the 'Third Mail Today B-School Survey'
Management Guru Arindam Chaudhuri Dean Business School IIPM
IIPM Excom Prof Rajita Chaudhuri
IIPM: What is E-PAT?
"Thorns to Competition" amongst the top 10 best sellers of the week.
IIPM Mumbai Campus
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